Hugo Chavez Speaks With Greg Palast
Canal Ocho (Channel 8) Venezuelan Television
Friday, May 3, 2002
Palast: When you were seized during the coup, and you were put on a helicopter to Orchilla, did you think that that might be your last helicopter ride, that you would never see Rosinez or your other children again? Did you ever think, this is it - they're taking me up in the air and I may not make it to the island, they could just throw me out of the helicopter?
Chavez: Listen Greg, at that moment, in the helicopter...
Palast: Now you had help, from a young officer, who helped you put a message into a garbage can, that you had not resigned. Could you tell me about that, how you were able to be helped, to get the message out that you hadn't resigned?
Chavez: I had the help of various people, various soldiers and officials...
Palast: I spoke to Ali Rodriguez today, and he was telling me something very interesting, that he called you a coupla days before the coup to warn you that there were some members of OPEC who were planning to stop or cut production because of the situation in the Middle East. And therefore there was danger for you because the United States could not allow you to remain in control of OPEC and Venezuela's oil if there was boycott coming. The question I have for you, did you understand this as a warning from Ali Rodriguez that a coup was immanent because of the oil situation?
Chavez: In all honesty, there was no direct relationship between that oil scenario and the possibility that production would be cut, and the immanence of the coup...
Palast: Nevertheless you must have known that your actions in rebuilding OPEC into a real - powerful - organisation had to upset the government of the United States and put you in hot water with the american government; that rebuilding OPEC, which was due to your actions, had to incur the wrath of the american government?
Chavez: In truth, when our government started, even before it started...
Palast: Now you gave president Clinton a lesson, but now the United States government have said, "Hugo Chavez had better learn the lessons of the coup." What do you think the american government means by 'the lessons' you should learn, and have you learned your lesson?
Chavez: I would would say we all have to learn the lessons of the coup, including myself...
Palast: but the US, when they say 'Hugo Chavez better learn his lessons' - do you take that as a threat from the american government? Isn't that a threat?
Chavez: I dont want to take it as a threat. No, they have their reasons for saying what they say...
Palast: I read your newspapers, and the papers in the United States, and Europe, and they say, 'Hugo Chavez is crazy, Hugo Chavez is a dictator!' So i'm gonna ask you, Mr President, are you crazy, are you loco?
Chavez: Look, I also read the papers, not as much as you Greg, but that's your business...
Palast: They also say you're a dictator, so Hugo Chavez - are you a dictator, are you using, for example, your Bolivarian Circles to intimidate your opponents? And we did see bullet holes in the front of the TV station that opposed you.
Chavez: Ok, is a dictator someone who was installed by an illegitimate fashion, for about a day and a half...
Palast: Then let me ask you, if according to your own constitution, the National Assembly votes to remove you, will you leave peacefully?
Chavez: The National Assembly could only do it through a series of steps; they have that right, to take the presidency away from me. There is only one way to do it - democratically, legitimately...
Palast: If they voted, would you accept their vote?
Chavez: Yes, democratically, yes. If I commit a felony...
Palast: You have two problems it seems. You have pressure from the outside, from the last remaining superpower, and internally from the upper classes. From the outside, isn't it true that the reason you're in hot water with the United States is over the issue of oil?
Chavez: I wouldn't like to believe that...
Palast: It's very clear - I dont want to take up too much time because your people are signalling me so I promise to stay within my limits - but I just want to ask you, clearly the man on the hill, the Ambassador, Shapiro, and his boss Mr Bush, they dont like you. wWat is behind this? Not everyone in America, and obviously the government, appreciates you establishing a base floor on the price of oil. Why does the United States government act so hostile towards you?
Chavez: I believe there is something at the very bottom of all this, and there are probably many reasons...
Palast: But doesn't it worry you that Otto Reich is in charge of Latin American affairs for the Bush government? He spoke to Carmona, he spoke to other people who may be involved in the coup, he was previously involved in trying to overthrow a government when he worked for Bush the father. Doesn't it worry you that the man in charge of Latin American operations for the United States has made ties to your enemies and has a history of overthrowing governments?
Chavez: We are assessing all these behaviours, but more than concern me...
Palast: Well who was it that the military men from the United States spoke to, you said that you know who they spoke to?
Chavez: I cannot give details...
Palast: Finally, a very last question. You said that you were a simple man, a peasant, a soldier, do you think this is one of the reasons why the rich hate you here? I've met many rich people and most of them, they dont just dislike you, they +hate+ you! Do you think it's because of your background, or the colour of your skin?
Chavez: Well - I have many friends who are rich, so not all of them hate me, fortunately! What I believe, is that the venezuelan high class are the victims of a psychological campaign...
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Palast's latest book is, "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy: An Investigative Reporter Exposes the Truth about Globalization, Corporate Cons and High Finance Fraudsters." At http://www.GregPalast.com you can read and subscribe to Palast's London Observer and Guardian columns and view his reports for BBC Television's Newsnight, including his interview with President Hugo Chavez.
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